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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:29 pm 
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sexXxholic
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Bet that sweeping generalisation in the subject thread got you reading this, eh? EH?

Well, my own self importance aside, this topic grew out of a discussion that Enki and I were having eariler today whilst I was considering playing FFVII again. Is there any games franchise whose fanbase really puts you off enjoying it fully? Why? Wherefore? And how?

Of course, fans shouldn't put you off enjoying something or forming your own opinion on a specific game since, hey, it's your own opinion and you can think what you like, right? But is it difficult coming to a game that has a vast army of incoherent fanboys willing to dismiss any flaw that might be present, in favour of taking the game apart piece by piece before analysing it to within an inch of it's life and putting it back together?


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:51 am 
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Project's Bitch
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Pretty much anyone who plays games like Quake online puts me off ever wanting to play online. You go on for a bit of casual play and you barely move an ich before being killed 500 times by people who mustn't have no jobs or lives

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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:33 am 
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Mew Mew's apprentice
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It's been ages since I've "got in to" an offline game, so having an example of a bad "fanbase" is a little trickier.

But... I do witness this type of behaviour all the time when playing online games, especially Guild Wars which is a build specific game. What do I mean? The skills you choose effect the outcome, a bad selection of skills = loose. What annoys me the most about this is certain "builds" or "team setups" become the must have (or cookiecutter). Anyone who is playing something that is not considered cookiecutter is dismissed and results in making the game more difficult to play with others successfully. You even get flamed and mocked for trying something different.

However I don't let this put me off playing the game. I play one of the most "left out" classes in the game, the mesmer, and very successfully. People tell me "you can't do this or that", I then go out and prove them wrong. We've (the community playing the mesmer class) even gone out challenging everything in the game using only this class, just to prove to the "general masses" out there anything is possible.

For me proving that what is considered "not possible" is something I try to do in games. I think that's what's kept me playing Guild Wars for the 3 years it's been out. Same goes for others online games I've played. I was one of the first Outfitters in the world to reach max level in Vanguard after being threatened I'm "ruining the game economy" (seriously wtf is a "game economy", but that's a whole different kettle of fish) because of the items I was making, all legal ofc, just in case that sounded dodgy.

It would be great if everyone would evaluate things instead of being "short-sighted". But then I'd have nothing to challenge, probably making games stale for me personally. However I can see how this would suit others, since they would be able to log on, have a quick play, log off again without any hassle. No one screaming "lolz don't take flare, n00b", "you need this, this and this; since you don't have it, bye", "omgz l2p".... the usual.

If I've totally missed the point of the question let me know.

BT


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:31 pm 
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Motoko's Bitch

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I can’t think of any fan base that has put me off a game. OK I’ve been creped out bye WoW players in the past (Especially people who play on Role-playing servers) but I’ve played the game & for the most part enjoyed it.

If anything its hype that can put me off a game, I’ll probably be shot for saying this but I think the only game in recently years that has possibly lived up to its hype was Halo 3 I really really really enjoyed that game & still on occasion do on Xbox Live. However look at Assassins Creed, Haze & Fable over hypes & no way as good as they said they were going to be.

If you are allowing the social status of a game dictate what games you play then you’re a very shallow individual. & by that I mean if you’ve ever thought about getting a Star Trek game & then thought to yourself.
”Oh no if I bye that people will think I’m a Treky”
Then you’re a shallow individual with no mind of your own.

Reading this back to myself I can’t help but think I’ve wondered slightly from the point but I think the question can be answered from many different perspectives. This is just my take on the question. Like BT said before me if you think I’ve missed the point please say.


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:56 pm 
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sexXxholic
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No need to worry about straying off topic peoples, it's not a massively specific question. Like you suggested KM there's no single answer.

I'm glad the idea of "playing the game wrong" by trying something different or just playing it for fun got brought up. I've seen people complaining before that people who don't do every single sub-quest in a game are somehow missing out on the most important part of it. One of my friends was flabbergasted that I couldn't be bothered to complete all of the tedious extras in Final Fantasy X.

I do agree that hype almost certainly leads to a pretty big fall in most cases. Months and months of fanboy ravings about a game being the second coming usually ends up just leaving me cold. A game that would've been a nice surprise perhaps is rendered underwhelming by the fact that you've had the equivalent of an army of 13 year old boys shouting into your face about how AMAZING THIS GAME IS GOING TO BE AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU'RE SOME KIND OF TWISTED SEXUAL DEVIANT for about 6 months. On the other hand, along with the hype comes the inevitable backlash where people hate a game simply because everyone else thinks it's going to be great, leaving you with two extreme views and bugger all in the way of middle ground. Which is, of course, a Very Bad Thing.


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:01 pm 
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Thank god someone also think there should be some middle ground in the hype/fanboy wars. I’ve been saying a similar thing for years.
Its interesting you mention Final Fantasy as I’ve had a love/hate relationship with FF Fanboys for years. I’ll spare everyone the many, many, many discussions, argument & falling outs I’ve had over the years with, as Howard Beale so rightly put its 13 year olds getting in your face about how amazing a game is going to be & if you don’t like it your some kind of sexual deviant. I love the final Fantasy Series as much as the next person, but I just find the hype surrounding each new game so (For the want of a better word) Unjustified, we all know that story is going to follow the FF Stable, some lone teenage miscreant, fights some big faceless corporation that are trying to enslave the planet/the people, with help form a bunch or mercenaries, one of witch will at some point have worked for said faceless corporation. (Before anyone shouts at me for plagiarism yes I am in part quoting Yahtzee)
I’ve started thinking to myself if there are any games that I’ve turned to the Fanboy side for? If I’m being honest I’m a complete Resident Evil Fanboy, & a maybe got a little caught up with the Halo 3 hype more than I should.


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Well I have to ask, with regard games like GTA and Metal Gear Solid, were the reviews for the latest ones just an effort to seem cool and not wanting to upset the masses. Since not a massive fan of either series, as in I would play them but don't think they're the greatest games in the world, I was wondering how can reviewers say a game that's 50/50 gamplay/cutscenes is a brilliant game?

Though I am a bit of a Nintendo fanboy as much as the Zelda, Metroid and main Mario games are concerned.But that's simply because they're brilliant! :D

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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:28 pm 
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I always got the feeling that reviews of MGS4 where just glad that the series has (For the moment any how) been rapped up, so gave it a good review as a way of saying,
”Thank Christ its all over”
I always think you should take reviews with a pinch of salt anyway, no matter how hard people try they are always going to be biyest (Spelling!) towards genres they prefer, be it RPG’s, Beat’um’Ups or Action Games.
Most of the positive reviews I read for GTA4 where on the whole from people who had give the last three GTA games a glowing review.
I like to read the more negative reviews to see if they raise any good points. Like graphical/technical issues, control problems & hidden bugs. Negative reviews that drone on about,
”We’ve seen it all before. Its nothing new, its just a bit prettier”
Just tick me off because at the end of the day it’s a GTA game there not trying to re-invent the series, the premise is always going to be the same. It’s a good game with some nice news features. The hype was a little over the top, but I put a lot of the GTA4 hype down to it being released while the British media was squeezing the “Byron Report & Games are Bad” news cow for all it was worth.


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:57 pm 
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Competitive Battling has killed Pokemon. So what if I want to use a pokemon 'designed' for physical sweeping as a special sweeper?

Also, how many times have I been flamed for saying I hate HALO 3? I can't see what's so great about it, I got one huge headache from playing it, I prefer Call of Duty 4.

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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:54 am 
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Its OK I’m not going to get ant anyone for not likening a games just because I like it. In fact quite a few quite a few of my friends seem to think I have a screw lose for thinking Halo 3 was anything better than nicer looking, almost carbon copy of Halo 2, I still like it. Don’t like playing it online much, as I think I said before there only so many racist jibs I can take. That said at least the Halo players aren’t as bad as the Gear of War Players.
Playing online is the only mass interaction your going to get with a large fan base, & if your interaction with them is nothing more than shouting abuse at one another & in the end you decided to stop playing that particular game online then maybe the answer to the threads original question is,
Yes fans can put you off playing a game.


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:22 pm 
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Kodama bit my bum
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So I see that the art director of Diablo III has quit thanks to the lovely 'fans'. Just because it looked to be a little 'too colourful' since, heaven forbid they use anything other than a heady mix of browns and reds. :roll:

Maybe it's just me, but couldn't the supposed fans of the series think of anything better to do than to start an online petition to drive a man from his job? O'course, I'm not a hardcore Diablo or Blizzard fan so I'd have gone along with any art-style as long as it looked nice. :Arr:

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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:00 pm 
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Motoko's Bitch

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I heard a little about that story & I immediately thought of this thread. I think it’s a very good example of how fans can ruin games even before they have been released. I’m shore something similar has happened before but since I’m at work & suffer from N.A.T.W. (No Access To Wikipedia) I can’t check up my facts.

I have to say it doesn’t surprise me, I’ve often found Blizzard fans the most unnerving. Ether drowning in there own drool over how “Good” StarCraft 2 is looking or how dear I say Blood Elves are better than Night Elves. (Honestly a comment like that almost got me into a fight with at my local Travelling Man)


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Kodama bit my bum
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Kohigh_Mathy wrote:
or how dear I say Blood Elves are better than Night Elves. (Honestly a comment like that almost got me into a fight with at my local Travelling Man)


If only there was a move where a Dwarf or even a Tauren could just break a female Blood Elf over their knees. It would be easy enough with how stick thin they are. :lol:

It does worry me though... once I scarily ventured onto the Blizzard WoW forums and found discussions on the tiny details of talent specs. Even one point mislaid and others would jump on the back of some saying they were a 'noob' and didn't know how to play the class...

What about the FUN people? Y'know? The FUN of playing the game?

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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:43 pm 
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Mew Mew's apprentice
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Enki wrote:
What about the FUN people? Y'know? The FUN of playing the game?


I'm not going to say the behaviour of the people posting on WoW forums is acceptable, or that they are right. But in a game like WoW, chances are if the person has put a point in the wrong place they are going to cause trouble later on or be a poor player. The reason most people jump on you for "trying something new" is it wastes their time. If I had been waiting hours to get a group together and someone turns up with a rubbish build, they alone will have wasted mine and everyone in the groups time. Where's the fun in waiting, or spending hours in an instance for someone to ruin it because of their poor build choice?

Same applies in Guild Wars. You can see when someone posts a well thought out build. And you can see when someone has just slapped anything on their skillbar. The end result between the two will be one failing, resulting in a waste of everybody’s time; and the other will be a success making the game more enjoyable for everyone else playing.

Sure you're free to go and pick whatever builds you want, whatever playstyle you want. But you need to be aware that not everyone wants to waste time experimenting or spending time dragging you through the game.

But, yeah, the WoW official forums are a horrible thing to read. That alone could put most people off playing. Just remember what one person finds fun isn't what another person finds fun. So if you're online playing, be aware not everyone will be nice to you or accept your "noob-y-ness".

BT


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 Post subject: Fans ruin everything...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:15 am 
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Mew Mew's apprentice
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I play WoW, and all i can say is it can be a great game, but like all game's you get a**holes, i've played with people who get all upset if something goes wrong, or they dont like something someone else does, and just sod off even in the middle of a dungeon, or on a raid.


I've played with people with bad builds and i've never had a problem with them, people play and build them how they like, and how suits them. People sometimes dont like the was my shaman is built, as my 70 pulls one hell of alot of aggro, and others love it, thats just life.


But then there is also these who think cheating is fun in games, like in the old Diablo, and diablo ll , you get people who would just join a game not to help, but just to kill you, the pk's :el: , thats why now you get alot of game's with online have save's on the server and not on a pc hard drive, and anyone found cheating gets band.


As for Halo 3, its boring and just upgrades from the first halo's, one was great, two ok, three was well done this befor, bored now, thats why i play things like Vagus 2 and COD4, and even MGS4, so the game play is just like the one's that came befor it but, they have a good story to go with them and keep you intersted.


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